I had forgotten about this thread. Sorry.

I have one question for my atheistic friends. Do you not realize that the question of the existence of God is logically prior to the question of whether a particular holy book is God's word or not?
What I'm saying is that I'm not going to discuss the Bible with a person who doesn't even believe that there is a God.
First things first.

 

So would you say that the Bible that we have today could not have been written without the prior existence of a God who inspired it?

 

YWHYH...

no vowels... lol

 

That is interesting, because it sounds to me like you are stacking the deck in order to never have to critically analyze you archaic belief structure.

What does believing in god have to do with being able to read……………unless of course you are referring to many of the people being responsible for god didn’t have this skill set?

 

This one is a rather obvious point. If one believes that the Bible is written and/or inspired by God, God must, of necessity exist (and his/her/its existence be believed in) prior to the creation of the Bible. Even without the Bible, the burden of proof for the existence of such a being still falls upon the believer. That said, the Bible aside, what are your proofs for the existence of God such that I should have faith in such an entity? Please don't insult my intelligence with platitudes like "I feel it in my heart" or "God must exist in order to explain creation" etc.

 

To Joe...

I'm not an atheist...

I'm an agnost...

So tell me Joe, what do I believe?

 

I know you have heard of this guy but I first saw this article today and thought it was good stuff.

Open Letter To Kansas School Board


I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
*not_secure_link*www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif
In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
Sincerely Yours,
Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.
P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.
*not_secure_link*www.venganza.org/him2.jpg

 

PASTAFARIAN!!!

My friend John decided to be one of those... lol

 

I would say that if God doesn't exist then neither the Bible nor any other book is God's word. One must first prove the existence of God and then when that is established one can go on to consider whether there is evidence or not about a particular book being God's word.

One doesn't prove the existence of God (or anything for that matter) by subjective feelings. All that "I feel it in my heart" proves is that one has a feeling.

 

So far you and I are in complete agreement . . .

 

You aren't sure one way or another. You may not be sure but think that it's most likely that God doesn't exist. Or you may lean in the other direction.

 

I am trying to leave but you guys won’t let me.

So when dealing with a murder trial, you should first prove who the killer is and then worry about any evidence in regard to the weapon?

 

So, Joe, if you don't prove the existence of a god with subjective feelings what do you prove it's existence with?

 

This ought to settle the argument once and for all Trumpet. Behold, this time we got Him on video.

 

I've tried and tried to understand the point that you are trying to make with this question and what (if anything) it has to do with proving the existence of God. But I have failed.

So...

Evidence and the use of logical reasoning.

 

On the first issue, I can see Perv's point, but I can also see yours. When people cite the bible as evidence of God's existence then refuting the bible is a valid argument. However, if you aren't taking the bible as proof of God's existence I can see why that line of argument leaves you wondering.

I'm interested in the evidence and the reasoning that prove God's existence to you, though, Joe.

 

it always amazes me how seemingly intelligent, mature people are dead set over arguing the existence of supernatural beings. i mean, at age 6 i can understand, it comes with the territory; santa claus, elves, arks capable of carrying 2 of every species of animal on the planet, trumpets blowing down walls, forbidden fruits, talking snakes, frosty the snowman, the list goes on. but come on! doesn't maturity and the hopeful increase in logic it brings deter you all one bit?

its a pity really. its all preconditioned into our minds from before the age of reason. learned and drilled into our infantile heads but so are alot of things we out grow, why not such beliefs?

there will be a time in the distant future when man finally evolves beyond such tribal, neh, primal beliefs. then the humans of that distant generation will look back on our present like how we view medieval Europe today.

 

what ever happend to all the old gods some of the rocked

Vishnu
Ares
Thor
Set
zeus
Odin
aphrodite

 

they all faded away with the cultures hat invented them

notice how they are all predominantly human looking? why? cuz the people who worship them need an image they can relate to.

 

thay were still cool